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Category Archives: Introvert vs. Extrovert

Extrovert Success and the Introvert

What kind of life in society is considered a success?  In obituaries we see ‘was a great person/parent’ and all kinds of statements, but never do we see ‘This person was successful.  In their time alive, they accomplished all the most important things in life.”

How are we to be successful anyway according to the mass society all around us?  Upon examination it seems nearly impossible.

Even if one has a happy marriage and great relations with all their family members, maybe they have difficulty getting along with their boss at work because of all the time spent with loved ones instead of work.

Even if one does great at work and is the boss’s favorite, maybe they’re workaholics distant from their spouse and family.  They’ve done well at the office because they put in those necessary extra hours.

One area of excellence excludes another in a competitive environment and yet extrovert ‘success’ requires excelling in every one of them.

The result is a society of illusion where everyone strives to appear to have the best of everything in their lives.  One’s most publicly visible assets, a house and car are naturally the most important means of deception.

Though extroverts try to wake introverts up to ‘reality,’ they in fact live in a fairy tale land of their own making where every family has its own castle and magic carpet.  The price of illusion is a lifetime of servitude to the image they wish to project.  Never having known anything else, they are driven by vague notions of ‘success’ that they thrust on everyone around them in turn.  They devote themselves entirely and without question, but do they ever really reach ‘success?’

Many introverts out of desperation go looking for ways to become more extroverted, but would ‘success’ in converting necessarily be salvation.  Even if one got more resources and recognition by becoming extroverted would one have eliminated the ability to experience happiness from these gains?  Would one end up lost in the maze of social comparisons, only happy or sad as others seem worse or better off?

To feel anything other than unfulfillment as an extrovert, one must hurry to have(or the appearance of having) a steady and loving marriage/relationship, a steady, highly paid, emotionally fulfilling job, a house, cars, an active social life, a fulfilling family life, a solid benefits and retirement package, above average, well-behaved children.

These criteria might even sound fairly ordinary but most people never come close to actually achieving them, even if they appear to do so.  It’s difficult to maintain marriage, family, friends, children when working a job that actually pays and provides benefits.  Even if one gets benefits, not many people can spend long enough in a single job to really benefit from them.  Even if one actually has the qualifications and social contacts to get one of these salary jobs, it’s still not enough to really pay for a house and cars, just for the appearance of being able to pay for them.  Even in the best of worlds where someone manages to somehow have all the bases covered, it’s an exhausting, stressful, demanding, noisy life to live.  Even in this best case scenario, this is the bare minimum one must do in the mass Western society before one has permission to be even moderately happy or successful.

In the current social climate, it takes an introvert to step back and realize that real life is by nature messy and imperfect.  That one can’t ‘have it all.’  That succeeding in one thing usually means sacrifice in another.

Once one starts asking questions, the whole idea of extrovert ‘success’ is sadly delusional.  Happiness or sadness is all about expectations.

If one has unrealistic expectations, one can never really end up happy.  Success ends up being a theoretical ideal to which one tries to mold themselves.  Happiness is distant and intangible.

If one has realistic expectations, happiness is fairly easy to come by.  Success lies in making one’s peace with an imperfect, chaotic, transitory life.  Happiness is immediate and obtainable in our everyday lives.

The extrovert path to happiness and success is long, complicated, and comes with no guarantees.

The introverted path allows the possibility of happiness so long as one has clothes to wear, food to eat, and people to bond with.

It all goes back to a fundamental difference.

Loud things are grandiose, convoluted, and bloated

Subtle things are elegant, simple, and minimalistic

Why Are Such A High Proportion of Gifted People Introverted?

From a number of sites, I have learned that while introverts are very much in the minority of the population, we make up a strong majority of the gifted population.

This information comes as no surprise.

What kind of person is busy studying for fun in their spare time?

What kind of person has a personality that lends itself to deep thought?

What kind of person thinks in terms of the big picture?

Much of an extrovert’s superiority in social environments comes from thinking less.   If an introvert is standing in a long line.  They think: There’s thousands of people here.  If everyone chose to advance themselves by any means, there would be chaos and everyone loses.  I’ll continue standing here.

An extrovert thinks:  I’m tired of standing in line.  I will do whatever necessary to make things better for me.  The extrovert wins because there is no time spent reflecting.  The extrovert is lean and mean, geared for survival and unburdened by other concerns.

Introverts are disadvantaged in part because of their penchant for critical reasoning.  While an introvert is busy thinking  in terms of game theory, the extrovert has already gone out and played the game.

It takes an introvert to be emotionally detached from our own being, our own immediate benefit, and consider our existence in terms of the universe around us, on a larger scale, in the long term.  While stopping to think in the abstract compromises our ability to compete in the big social game, only people who can think outside of the game can ever hope to change the rules or operate outside of them.

Thus, the aggressive extrovert might succeed in moving up a few hundred places in line, working themselves half to death in the process.  The introvert, though far behind, has the potential to find a way to avoid the line entirely while still achieving their aims.  They have the presence of mind to actually ask, “Will my aims be achieved at the end of the line?  If so will it be worth it?  If worth it, is there an easier way?  If not worth it, why am I still in this line?”

The abstract and deep reasoning that socialites associate with rocket scientists is the default pattern of thought for an introvert.  Delving into larger problems and searching for the simplest solution comes as second nature.   Thus, it is a matter of course that gifted persons are largely introverts.

Extrovert Critic: “You’ll Never Get Laid If You ____”

How many times has any male introvert nerd been told “If you like (DandD, klingons, magic cards, x…) you’ll never get any girls”?
The aim of this criticism is to point out the superiority of the accepted orthodoxy over the divergent path. The argument is that “You will not be rewarded with social approval for your actions, therefore you are foolish, wrong, and irrational.”
After a lifetime of receiving such criticism and mockery, it becomes easy to start accepting such views as truth. However, the way people and societies work is considerably more complex than extrovert critics care to realize:

Girls aren’t usually interested in dungeons and dragons but neither do they tend to be terribly interested in the intricacies of professional sports, fighting wars, or entering blazing buildings. A pro athlete, soldier, or firefighter tends to attract women not because women share their interests but because of their:
-high social status
-high level of congruency with the orthodoxy.

Many women in the West see sci fi/fantasy fandom as a negative trait because such interests are associated with low social standing and low levels of congruency with the larger society. The general perception is that Nerddom is a zone for beta males who can’t compete in the ‘real’ society.

Thus, if D and D repels the typical cheerleader or sorority girl, it is not because of any inherent property of the game itself. It is about the social meaning attached to the game by any given society. There is no inherent reason, as extrovert critics love to assert, that nerd games ought to be unappealing to women.
The extrovert critic represents the limited perspective of but one of the world’s many societies:

South Korea is a country that treats real time strategy as a professional sport, the players enjoy a great deal of prestige and have no problems with opposite sex. One top protoss player named Bisu is renowned for his good looks and has countless adoring female fans. The players get supplied with pretty ‘booth girls’ who serve them drinks or take care of their needs during the course of a match. The studio audiences at these starcraft matches are composed of people of all ages and contain a high percentage of women.

Thus, if Dungeons and Dragons were on national television and the football team was an underground movement of social outcasts, the roles would be effectively reversed. It is simply a matter of social values.

Thus, if outcasts formed a cohesive new order with their own values installed as the orthodoxy, one need not worry about girls. There would be plenty of prestige and social congruency attached to previously derided and undesirable activities.
Yet another aspect of absolution!

Extrovert ‘reality’

Leads To: The Most Precious Resource: Legitimacy,
Collective Checkmate

Introverts are frequently criticized for ‘living under a rock,’ ‘being sheltered’, and of course ‘being out of touch with reality.
So what exactly do they mean by ‘reality’? What do they imply is an insubstantial fantasy land?

The extroverted critic clearly presupposes a very precise meaning of all that is ‘real,’ tangible, and substantial.
From their criticisms we can infer that their reality could be defined as as:
the sum of the shared knowledge, preferences, and actions of every person in a given mass society.

The more people who are doing any given thing, the more real it is. I suppose this because:
the strength of criticisms they administer is proportional to the popularity of x thing ‘everybody else has heard of’ or ‘everybody else likes’ or ‘everybody else has done/experienced.’

The extrovert critic demonstrates that being defined by their surrounding society is one of their cardinal values. This is a value that is suddenly and jarringly violated when they discover the ‘serious’ person in the corner hasn’t heard of their favorite band. So important and ‘real’ is a detailed knowledge of the mass collective that they quite literally conceive of its absence in one’s life as existence in a land of fantasy and illusion.
To understand the Loud perspective is to understand that being even slightly out of tune with one’s surrounding mass society is to be mentally ill. From their definition of reality, it is the logical conclusion for them to arrive at that someone divergent lives in a realm of delusion.

Extrovert Malfunction in Foreign Societies

Extroverts are extremely specialized and well adapted to the standards of their society. They are so attached to their ways that encountering other customs and world views is extremely uncomfortable for them.
To see a Western extrovert in a foreign country reveals an important principle:
An expert in one society is hopelessly inept in another. When their main area of expertise becomes useless, they are crippled. Their reaction is usually one of frustration and denial.

In college, I studied abroad for a time in South America. I was one of a group of fellow Americans. We each were assigned to a family but attended all the same classes and a number of mandatory activities.

For most of them, the trip was fraught with social difficulties. Their usual assertive behavior made for tough relations with their host families. Some of them quickly got changed to another family which they didn’t like any better than the last. They complained about the matter, never considering that perhaps they ought to adapt and accept rather than object.

The girls in this group insisted on wearing short shorts and spaghetti straps on the streets, yet were outraged when every time they constantly received wolf whistles and other unwelcome attention. Instead of adapting, they continued to act as before while complaining bitterly and making pronouncements about how people in that country should behave. All they had to do was dress a little more modestly like the locals and their problem would have been solved.

Most of the Americans in my group reacted negatively to the local culture and spent all their time in each other’s company. In months of living there, some of them barely left with any more Spanish than they came with.

My brother when studying in Latin America had an embarrassing experience with a socialite girl in his group of students. She went up to a local and told him in broken Spanish ‘you must not smoke.’ Needless to say, her presumptuous demand was ignored.

The common pattern exhibited here is that many extroverts are quite simply unable to acknowledge that there is more than one Correct way for a social environment to function. The obvious refutation of millions of people living by another standard is an affront to everything they have founded their identity upon and everything they believe in. It challenges assumptions they were raised with and have accepted without question. The standard reaction is aggressive denial and an irrational struggle. To a true introvert, they most resemble toy poodles yapping shrilly at an indifferent and gigantic great dane. To view their utter impotence is a vindication and a delight.

These extroverts are used to living in a society they feel they belong to and which they feel belongs to them. At home they are used to having a say in how their society is implemented. When they arrive in a foreign country, they are quite simply unable to adapt to the fact that they are complete outsiders with no say at all.

As an introvert studying abroad, I found that I had an enormous advantage over the other people in my group. I had spent all my life in a society that had made me feel an outsider. To feel that I had no stake or say in the surrounding society seemed for me the most natural impulse in the world. That I had to adapt to what others were doing, even if I didn’t agree with it, was so obvious it didn’t need thinking. I did not share that need to judge and attempt to set things into a familiar order.
Consequently, I got along well with my host family and spent my time with them instead of the other American students. Investing all my time in my host family was richly rewarded. I had the experience of a lifetime and grew to appreciate another culture. I allowed myself to see both the advantages and the faults of that particular culture. In many ways, it was a big improvement over living in the United States.

The whole trip was an affirmation of strength for me as an introvert. It was an experience in weakness and disorientation for most of the extroverts.
Afterwards I could never forget that those who let society define them are noisy yet insignificant toy poodles if they are simply taken out of their element and placed in another.
I couldn’t help but wonder if being a social minority is an experience more extroverts need to have– that claustrophobic feeling of being crushed under millions of people whose customs and expectations drastically differ from one’s own.

Introvert vs. Extrovert: Mental Health

As an introvert I have been made to feel many times that my ways are unhealthy or that I am even borderline mentally ill. My values and priorities are so alien to them that they naturally assume something is wrong with me. Worst is when they try to intervene and ‘fix’ me!

Never does it seem to occur to them that many of their behaviors are strange and disturbing from the introvert point of view.

What I notice most about extroverts is their almost compulsive need for constant stimulation. There’s this upset stomach look that comes across an extrovert’s face when they’ve no one(or even not enough people) to talk to. What happens next? Stimulation, any kind from anywhere. As introverts, we’ve ended up in cars and at restaurants with someone to whom we just couldn’t give enough interaction. It’s an annoying and heavy burden of responsibility. Most of us are not willing to babysit a grown person. The extrovert gets desperate, starts talking about pointless stuff, which causes an introvert to disengage entirely. We’ve seen what happens when an extrovert gets stuck in their nightmare scenario:

-The cell phone immediately comes out. Anyone who will say anything to them will do.
-Next step is loud music. The louder the better. Somehow this is soothing. The sheer white noise seems to fulfill some deep set need.
-The extrovert in question starts talking as loudly as possible, almost to the point of shouting in order to stimulate themselves. They don’t usually seem to conscious of doing this. In the case I’m forced to ask them to tone it down a little, they usually seem genuinely surprised at my request.
-Extreme fidgeting, finger snapping, knee slapping, humming to themselves. Often in conjunction with very loud music. By itself, it’s something of a last resort. When it reaches that point, I sometimes wonder if they’re going to snap.
-Amazingly, sometimes interaction deprivation(especially if prolonged) causes them to be quiet. Uncharacteristically quiet. When this happens they turn sullen and depressed. So much so that their dark mood practically fills a room.

Now, tons of extroverts have supposed there’s something wrong with me, but I have to wonder which way is unhealthy? It seems that the extrovert requires constant distraction from their own selves. That doesn’t seem like an indicator of good mental health!
-I have to wonder, what are they perpetually running from?
-Is it boredom from being forced to engage an underdeveloped inner life?
-Is it simply an unfilled vacuum, deferred questions, unaddressed personal insecurities that they must suddenly face?
-If it is that awful to spend time with yourself, doesn’t that strongly suggest you don’t like yourself very much?

They literally cannot live with themselves and I think by projecting their needs upon me suppose I must be thoroughly wrecked in the head by not constantly socializing. I quite realize that extrovert has very different needs from my own. I also realize that extrovert is incapable of empathizing with me.

I, the warped, sick, mentally ill introvert am at peace with myself, I enjoy just being me. In spite of this I recognize that other people have other needs. I don’t have to overload my system to feel happy and stimulated by the world around me.

The healthy, outgoing, achieving extrovert
-writhes in agony when forced to live in their thoughts
-can enjoy interaction with others but not themselves
-is unable to empathize with non-extroverts in spite of their fascination with other people.

Most worrisome of all, the extrovert has a relationship with sheer volume and noise of stimulation that follows a pattern very like chemical addiction. They are physically incapable of living without regular ‘fixes.’ They have to keep upping the volume because their tolerance is sky high.

Frankly, I find it a little disturbing that I’ve just described the sort of person who is thought to be the epitome of ‘having things together’ in our society.

In a mass society where most people are strangers, those most determined to break the ice and engage in networking win. Thus, I suspect that those most determined to project themselves outwards are naturally those trying hardest to escape from themselves.

Introverts, Money, and Employment

What is money to an introvert?

For those in the main stream of society it defines every aspect of life.

For those who look inwards for meaning and exist outside of the larger society, it is just one part of life.

Money is a physical manifestation of social force, it is the lifeblood of society. A wad of cash is a solid chunk of aggregate human desire.

As such, one who is Subtle has an uneasy relationship with money. One receives money based on how much society desires what they have to offer. Money is a phenomenon that we can experience only in reference to a collective entity.
The dollar is a fiat currency based entirely on public confidence.
Thus the possession of wealth is in a way, a measure of popularity. It is a measure of how valuable each person is to everyone else.
To define oneself by money is thus to worship the desires of everyone else over one’s own desires. The old question goes “If you’re so smart, why aren’t you rich?”
This question is itself very revealing. The asker quite obviously perceives money to be the ultimate standard of validation and success. Clearly, it is implied, anyone with brains would put the acquisition of money before all else.

Those who look within are not likely to see the acquisition of wealth as the ultimate good, however. The importance of money for such people derives from a completely different purpose.

-One who is Loud strives for money as the supreme source of validation and social approval.

-On who is Subtle accumulates money to achieve independence from the whims of others.

Big houses and flashy cars are most important to those who let society define them. These possessions are tokens that flaunt society’s approval and esteem for all to see.

The true introvert is far more likely to see such things as superficial and a waste of time. The purpose of wealth is to obtain the ability to control one’s time, to pick and choose who one associates with, to be able to flout social conventions if desired. The principal use of money is not to increase one’s subordination to society but rather to sever one’s compulsory ties insofar as possible.

The hallmark of extroverted wealth is countless hours, even a lifetime spent accumulating as much money and as many tokens of social recognition as possible. Since society’s approval is the meaning of life, all hours are bent on obtaining it. One’s social relationships and self esteem are built upon it.
Without money such a person can hardly be considered to exist.
A fiat currency disappears the moment people stop believing in it. Likewise, those who have built their identity upon money are fiat people in a fiat society. The moment other people stop believing in their value, they will disappear.

To the introvert, money is meaningless if one sacrifices all their time and power while obtaining it. The purpose of money is to secure personal autonomy. I’ve found that a high proportion of extreme introverts have difficulty achieving steady employment. While most people are focused on simply ‘making a living’, one who is Subtle constantly strives to achieve the optimal balance between money and time.
Time is in fact more valuable than money. One can always make more money so long as one has time to make it. Time, however, is a non-renewable resource. We only have it in a discreet quantity that is steadily dwindling. True introverts, then, tend to cooperate with society insofar as is necessary to secure control over their time. In the hands of one who is Subtle, the very lifeblood of society is subverted into freedom from society.

How to Live With an Introvert Roommate

To comfortably share an abode with a Subtle sort of person, one must extend but one basic principle to all dealings:

-Reduce social obligation and friction of association.

I must begin by explaining the difference of one’s room to the introvert and the extrovert.

For an extrovert, a room is a place to crash in between episodes of social activity. It’s just a tool required for basic rest and shelter.

For the introvert, one’s room is home, sanctuary, and all important private kingdom. One who is Subtle deals with a world that neither accepts nor understands their ways. The room is often the one place in the world where they can really feel safe and relaxed.

An extroverted roommate is one of the introverted person’s greatest fears: The fear that one who is grounded in the orthodox society brings that society with them into the room, effectively eliminating the last haven.

For an introvert, being forced to immerse in the hostile society even in their home is one of the greatest imaginable violations. I imagine that many an extrovert has found themself with an introverted roommate who was constantly surly, closed, and hostile, seemingly without reason.

Some intial steps:
-Keep your movies and music on headphones unless you’re both explicitly watching or listening to it.
-Don’t snap fingers, tap, clap, or slap your knees while listening to music/movies. These noisy antics are worse than second hand smoke.
-For phone calls, take the cell phone out in the hallway, and don’t talk loudly, especially to someone who’s not actually in the room. Extremely rude!
-Don’t make your room an entertaining center for groups of friends, especially not late at night or while all of you are drunk. If you wish for peace with an introvert, just bring in one or two friends at a time and don’t pursue any particularly loud or obtrusive activities. Asking permission, negotiating first will get you far. Actually, just showing respect by giving some form of advance notice is usually good enough.

This might seem like a lot to ask, but consider what all these situations have in common. By doing any of these things in the room, you are imposing your values and lifestyle on your roommate. You are deciding what your roommate will listen to, who they have to live with, and exactly when they have to do these things. You have decided that you are vested with the natural authority to make life decisions for your roommate! As far as an introvert is concerned, you might as well jump across the room, ransack their belongings, and piss all over their mattress.

If you persist with typical extrovert habits when you have an introverted roommate, you will needlessly make an enemy! An enemy who perceives that you have given up all rights to your personal living preferences and belongings. You will be accorded no respect because you never gave any. Your roommate will be watching for any weakness or means of forcing you out.

Your introverted roommate’s essential needs are very simple: one half of one room as their respected and safe domain. From the Subtle perspective, this is not only a reasonable demand, it seems cruel and miserly that someone who has the entire outside world on their side cannot be bothered to spare one 5×12 foot rectangle.

Other than that,
-Do not always give/expect greetings and farewells when leaving or arriving.
-Don’t impose your social expectations on your roommate.
-If in doubt whether it needs to be said, don’t say it.
-If you leave your roommate alone, your introverted roommate will happily reciprocate.
-IMPORTANT! DON’T disturb your introverted roomate if they are clearly concentrating on something unless it is very important.

Once you’ve shown basic respect, chances are, your Subtle roommate will grow comfortable and eventually actually approach you.
The key is that you cannot make control of the room into a social power struggle as extroverts naturally do. You have to respect your introvert roommate as an equal or no deal. Introverts operate according to tacit understandings and unseen contracts. What is most important does not need to be said because it is self evident from the nature of the situation.

Only when friction of association and social obligation are reduced to mutually acceptable levels are there grounds for friendly and harmonious co-existence.

Introverts and Travel

Since introverts carry the most important things within, they can thrive almost anywhere under any circumstances. They are consumate wanderers. Only one who is self-defined can move unscathed from land to land.
Introverts love to explore on their own.(probably why I love Morrowind so much) Anonymously wandering through a foreign locale is a mouth watering feast.

Within a few days, an extrovert already is getting homesick. They miss pizza and cheeseburgers, they’re sick and tired of going through the motions of taking pictures of old buildings and paintings they couldn’t care less about. Yet they still go through the motions because they scramble to fulfill expectations from back home even when in a foreign land.

Travel is liberation for an introvert. One set of conventions can be traded away for another that is more suitable to the needs of the moment.
There can be no homesickness:
An introvert does not truly have a home country. Wherever they grew up, they have always been treated as a foreigner.

When an introvert changes location to a foreign land, it is immensely refreshing. There is no longer that constant need to pretend to be a member of society.
Every society has its oppressive conventions but while traveling, an introvert can live in a free zone. People generally expect unorthodox behaviors from foreigners! An introvert thus has a license to be while abroad.

All the things that extroverts can’t stand:
-Different food
-Different culture
-A different history

Are candy for the introvert.
Seeing exactly what is the same and what is different from place to place fosters a truer understanding of what it means to be human.

The greatest glory of being an introvert traveler:

Seeing humanity in a larger context allows a liberation of mind and soul:

One sees how the society that has told them through all of life that they are Incorrect is no great authority but a common tiny despotism just like any other on this planet. There is nothing special about nor does it have any legitimacy. It is ‘might makes right’ and nothing more.

This knowledge absolves the introvert traveler of being a sin and of any lingering loyalties to the oppressive conventions they were raised with.

Friendship for Extroverts and Introverts

From ‘The Albatross’ January 18, 2009
The introvert friendship is seldom, but it is based on a deep loyalties that are not so tied to place and circumstance as a bond quickly and adeptly acquired. More specifically, the introvert friendship exists underneath the tumultuous surface of the mass society. Companionship, fellowship, and maintenance are all one and the same. There are no chores to perform in the introvert friendship. It is self-sustaining and a source of renewal for those involved. It lasts a lifetime, outside of the larger society, outside of time.

Extroverts typically attempt to keep surrounded by people most of the time. The bonds they form in the competitive social group require constant reinforcement to stay alive. The typical extrovert friendship is a fire lit only with kindling. It must constantly, emphatically be renewed or else fade away. Its maintenance is a constant task, a drain of the self for all involved for the sake of the social artifact they wish to create. Even the greatest of ‘pals’ are quickly reduced to sending each other cards at Christmas without regular face to face interaction.

From ‘The Blank Exterior’ January 2, 2009
Uninhibited friendliness is sacred to an introvert and is for those who whom they hold closest. Like trust, and respect, it is earned. All others are approached with caution and respectful reserve.

The unconditional exuberance of extroverts seems superficially sunny by comparison, endearing perhaps like a dog wagging its tail, but not indicative of any deeper feeling than that which moves them at the moment. Since it’s how they act around everyone one must wonder: are they being sincere underneath that happy veneer.

From ‘The Myth of Extrovert Empathy’ December 30, 2008
An introvert measures their social life by the quality of the people they have chosen to count as friends and of those whom they have had the opportunity to know.

An extrovert measures their social life and that of others by how many friends, social contacts, how many social events they are invited to.

(Someone came to my site searching for introverts+friendship, so I have consolidated pre-existing segments on the subject into one post)

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