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	<title>Comments on: Introverts, Social Loyalty, and Social Immunity</title>
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	<link>http://kingdomofintroversion.com/2009/11/17/introverts-social-loyalty-and-social-immunity/</link>
	<description>The World according to the 'introvert' and the 'nerd'</description>
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		<title>By: unclegluon</title>
		<link>http://kingdomofintroversion.com/2009/11/17/introverts-social-loyalty-and-social-immunity/#comment-321</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[unclegluon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 20:35:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kingdomofintroversion.com/?p=401#comment-321</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Most people, no matter how deeply alienated are not going to find a different society.
True, most people never look that hard.
But are you so sure there are other options out there?  Cultures vary widely but there is no paradise on this Earth.  Where does someone who is disenchanted go?  Most countries aren&#039;t going to let people immigrate just &#039;cause, especially not countries that lots of people would like to move to.  Industrialized countries all operate on a similar framework.  More traditional societies are based on blood ties.  If one has no blood ties, where does one start?  How is one to learn the skills and social conventions required to operate in another society.  You can&#039;t go into another society and expect people to stop and teach you things their small children already know.

We do not consciously enter social contracts, we are born into them.  As we grow, we must accept the terms we have been born into.  If we don&#039;t like them, tough.
We are taught the values and skills pertaining to one society.  Alternatives are never given us.
Yes, we can choose to run off to some other country or go into the wilderness wearing nothing but a loin cloth, but this is a false choice if we have none of the survival skills to be able to successfully transition to another lifestyle.

People are social beings not well suited to living alone.  Even when people did live in the wilderness, it was never alone.  People are not very effective at surviving completely by themselves.  In traditional societies, ostracism was nothing less than a death sentence.
The result is an unequal relationship.
We need society for survival.  Society doesn&#039;t particularly need any single one of us.
I suppose that in a small band everybody knows everybody else and a single individual&#039;s effort makes a substantial difference.  As such, they have some leverage in the affairs of their group.  
As the group expands, the relationship between individual and society becomes increasingly lopsided.
In a nation state of millions or hundreds of millions, the individual is so small as to be beneath notice.  Whatever society commands must be obeyed because one person holds no leverage.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most people, no matter how deeply alienated are not going to find a different society.<br />
True, most people never look that hard.<br />
But are you so sure there are other options out there?  Cultures vary widely but there is no paradise on this Earth.  Where does someone who is disenchanted go?  Most countries aren&#8217;t going to let people immigrate just &#8217;cause, especially not countries that lots of people would like to move to.  Industrialized countries all operate on a similar framework.  More traditional societies are based on blood ties.  If one has no blood ties, where does one start?  How is one to learn the skills and social conventions required to operate in another society.  You can&#8217;t go into another society and expect people to stop and teach you things their small children already know.</p>
<p>We do not consciously enter social contracts, we are born into them.  As we grow, we must accept the terms we have been born into.  If we don&#8217;t like them, tough.<br />
We are taught the values and skills pertaining to one society.  Alternatives are never given us.<br />
Yes, we can choose to run off to some other country or go into the wilderness wearing nothing but a loin cloth, but this is a false choice if we have none of the survival skills to be able to successfully transition to another lifestyle.</p>
<p>People are social beings not well suited to living alone.  Even when people did live in the wilderness, it was never alone.  People are not very effective at surviving completely by themselves.  In traditional societies, ostracism was nothing less than a death sentence.<br />
The result is an unequal relationship.<br />
We need society for survival.  Society doesn&#8217;t particularly need any single one of us.<br />
I suppose that in a small band everybody knows everybody else and a single individual&#8217;s effort makes a substantial difference.  As such, they have some leverage in the affairs of their group.<br />
As the group expands, the relationship between individual and society becomes increasingly lopsided.<br />
In a nation state of millions or hundreds of millions, the individual is so small as to be beneath notice.  Whatever society commands must be obeyed because one person holds no leverage.</p>
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		<title>By: geopolicraticus</title>
		<link>http://kingdomofintroversion.com/2009/11/17/introverts-social-loyalty-and-social-immunity/#comment-319</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[geopolicraticus]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:39:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kingdomofintroversion.com/?p=401#comment-319</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There are social contract theorists who have explicitly argued that simply remaining in a society is sufficient evidence for one&#039;s tacit consent to the social contract. I think your above Hobbesian account of &quot;naked coercion&quot; is closer to the true. But, let&#039;s face it, most people, even deeply alienated people, don&#039;t have the stomach to pull up stakes and find a different society for themselves, thus making a conscious choice in entering into a social contract.

Best wishes,

Nick]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are social contract theorists who have explicitly argued that simply remaining in a society is sufficient evidence for one&#8217;s tacit consent to the social contract. I think your above Hobbesian account of &#8220;naked coercion&#8221; is closer to the true. But, let&#8217;s face it, most people, even deeply alienated people, don&#8217;t have the stomach to pull up stakes and find a different society for themselves, thus making a conscious choice in entering into a social contract.</p>
<p>Best wishes,</p>
<p>Nick</p>
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