Not likely.
Extroverts are very, very good at what they do. Competitive social interaction is what they have a talent for, what they’re passionate about, and what they put all of their time and energy into.
It is a daydream for many introverts to outmaneuver the Loud people who cause them so much trouble. However, this isn’t so far off from imagining climbing into a boxing ring with limited experience and beating up a professional. This is why it generally stays a daydream. Chances are, if we actually climb into that ring, that we’ll lose.
To succeed in throwing one’s weight around a different strategy is required.
Why didn’t we become experts in social interaction? In part because we have to devote all our time to be good at it. As introverts, we chose to focus on other skills and areas of knowledge.
Extroverts are extreme specialists. There’s one social setting or society that they have mastered through countless hours of practice. It’s the thing they do.
All an introvert has to do is change the game that’s being played and the extrovert is helpless.
One who is defined by society operates by strict parameters that they expect everyone else to share. So much so, that they find it discordant and jarring whenever basic assumptions or conventions are violated. Much of an introvert’s life is spent warding off extrovert knee jerk responses to unconventionality.
These knee jerk responses can also be taken advantage of because they are predictable.
Any given extrovert will try to take your measure according to their narrow concept of how someone should behave. It is amazingly easy to confound all their attempts to figure out your intentions. I hardly even have to try since I operate by very different motives and assumptions to begin with. By playing around a bit with what I choose to reveal or conceal, I can cause confusion. When someone is confused by me, it can give me a lot of room to maneuver. The response to confusion is often hostility. Hostility can be very useful if it causes the extrovert to ‘punish’ you by giving the silent treatment or by avoiding you altogether.
The person in question can’t be too important or long term. This tactic is best used to outmaneuver or neutralize someone who is temporarily in your life. It’s a smokescreen useful for keeping someone noisy and nosy off your back until you move on to the next thing. While they’re busily prevaricating trying to figure out what you’re up to, you do whatever it is you want.
For longer term involvements, it is wiser to play the Iago game. Extroverts expect people to wear their emotions on their sleeve. They make all their judgment calls by gauging emotions in others. It’s another predictable trait that can be exploited.
All my life, I have had to publicly conceal my true feelings and make active display of emotions I do not feel just to survive. Even when an extrovert greatly angers me, I know how to keep my displeasure under wraps. It doesn’t occur to most extroverts that someone who is angry would not assertively make their feelings known. Thus, an introvert has the advantages of secrecy and surprise. If desired, they can wage a war the that the other side isn’t even aware of.
The wise introvert can reap all the advantages of even the most abrasive extrovert’s social expertise while undercutting or sabotaging them when they inevitably get demanding and pushy. Just set them up with distractions or difficulties whenever needed. Stimulus begets reactions. Extroverts simply tend to respond before they stop to think things through. Their attention is easily diverted, even minor setbacks cause them lots of stress and eat up lots of their energy. If you’ve ever seen how an extrovert reacts to not being able to find a single misplaced item, imagine misplacing one of their belongings every time they were rude and aggressive. If they cannot be civil, simply keep them spinning on a hamster wheel somewhere until they are needed.
If there must be games, the most important thing is to not to play in the extroverted realm. That is a sure way to lose.
Better strategies are:
-Changing the rules
-Hiding the rules
-Obfuscation/distraction
-Hide intentions
-Hide the conflict itself so the other side takes all the punishment
-Be inconspicuous, don’t attract attention
-If one must engage, always do so in a place that is unfamiliar and disorienting to the extrovert. Extrovert social mastery only applies to the cultures and environments they know.
Perhaps these tactics sound manipulative or even a little evil? Not very sportsmanlike? Never forget that an extrovert will happily crush you and grind you into the floor in an open confrontation. They are professional fighters. They constrict, annoy, and oppress even when they’re trying to be nice. Introverts resort to alternate tactics because they’ve been left with no other choice. The objective is not retribution so much as it is simple survival. An introvert is happy if simply left alone. The extrovert on the other hand grabs for ever more power. At some point it is necessary to take self-defense measures or else be exterminated.
For an introvert, life can seem like war with everyone else and just making through a day often feels like a battle. If there must be war, personal autonomy must be preserved by any means necessary.
Fortunately, much conflict can be eliminated simply by living under the surface and doing whatever necessary to avoid attracting attention in the first place.
Avoidance is the best course of action
If that’s not possible, secrecy.
Never forget that if the conflict comes to light, society is on the extrovert’s side.
14 Comments
See this is why I like reading your blog entries. This entry right here is classic. I agree with your strategies, and I think that they are a great way to deal with narcissistic individuals as well. One thing that I have learned about extreme extroverts is that they believe that they are liked by everyone because they are socially adept. And while many people probably do like extroverts and extreme extroverts, I’m often annoyed by them. I don’t think that many of them seriously consider the fact that someone might be annoyed by them or might dislike them. And alot of them are gifted when it comes to being assertive about their own boundaries and the protection of their feelings while they violate others and dismiss other people’s feelings.
I agree that avoidance is usually the best approach, but even then, a lot of extroverts have no concept of avoidance, because they’re of the mentality that no one would want to avoid them. I had to deal with this issue with two extroverted coworkers at a former job. The both of them were extremely extroverted, and I felt violated by the both of them. With one of them, I used avoidance until he finally got the picture. With the other one, I had to use some of those strategies you discussed because she just didn’t get it.
You have an excellent point.
Lots of extroverts operate on the assumption everyone likes them. It’s the source of their confidence, the foundation of their identity. I’ve at times pretended I liked an extrovert because I knew they would be crushed if they knew they merely annoyed me. I did so because I didn’t want to hurt their feelings, but that was not the only reason. Those who get their validation from others will often lash out at those who put a dent in their sense of validation. To fail to offer approval to an extrovert can be very like a vassal failing to offer tribute to his lord.
Since extroverts tend to desperately believe they are liked, the Iago game can be very easy to play. An introvert can get far by just by playing along with whatever the extrovert assumes to be the case. Give them blanks and they will fill them in.
“Those who get their validation from others will often lash out at those who put a dent in their sense of validation.”
Yeah, I agree with this. It’s the same thing with highly narcissistic individuals, which alot of extroverts seem to be. The more narcissistic a person is, the more lilkely that person is to lash out at his or her “prey” when the “prey” doesn’t play according to the rules. And I am of the opinion that a lot of extroverts see other people as “prey” in the social game, especially if they think that other people are a source for their amusement. It must shock some of them to no end when their “prey” figures out their little game.
“Even when an extrovert greatly angers me, I know how to keep my displeasure under wraps. It doesn’t occur to most extroverts that someone who is angry would not assertively make their feelings known. Thus, an introvert has the advantages of secrecy and surprise. If desired, they can wage a war the that the other side isn’t even aware of.”
Yeah, there have been so many times when I have been angry at some of these people, and I never once showed irritation or blatant signs of anger toward them. I realized that simply because someone is angry that doesn’t mean that that person will show his or her anger through assertiveness or knee jerk reactions. Extroverts are more likely to show their displeasure through assertiveness and assertiveness is a good skill to have but at the same time, in my personal experience with extroverts, they don’t respond to other poeple’s assertiveness. They’ll simply turn around and do the same behavior again in order to show that they are perfect and can do no wrong. And that’s what makes interaction with a lot of them so frustrating. So a lot of the time they leave other people with no choice but to resort to more manipulative and underhanded tactics. Then when all is said and done, a lot of extroverts will say something like “Well, you should have just made your feelings known in the first place”. And my response is “yeah ok…keep telling yourself that.”
God you’re narrow-minded self centered ass.
“Competitive social interaction is what they have a talent for, what they’re passionate about”
Seeing basic social interaction as competitive is just plain paranoia. It’s like falling behind in a group of walkers and claiming they were all “racing to get their first”.
“Extroverts are extreme specialists. There’s one social setting or society that they have mastered through countless hours of practice…One who is defined by society operates by strict parameters that they expect everyone else to share.”
I’m an extrovert who has lived in many different cultures and done research on cross cultural learning. Believe me, I know lots of ways of interacting. In every culture I know, the extreme introvert is a pain in the ass.
“One who is defined by society operates by strict parameters that they expect everyone else to share. So much so, that they find it discordant and jarring whenever basic assumptions or conventions are violated.”
Yes, in each culture I’ve been in, though varied, the introverts self-centeredness is always jarring.
“All my life, I have had to publicly conceal my true feelings and make active display of emotions I do not feel just to survive. Even when an extrovert greatly angers me, I know how to keep my displeasure under wraps. It doesn’t occur to most extroverts that someone who is angry would not assertively make their feelings known. Thus, an introvert has the advantages of secrecy and surprise. If desired, they can wage a war the that the other side isn’t even aware of.”
Now you’re just trying to sound like a sociopath. Seriously, you people need to be banned from access to firearms.
“If you’ve ever seen how an extrovert reacts to not being able to find a single misplaced item, imagine misplacing one of their belongings every time they were rude and aggressive. If they cannot be civil, simply keep them spinning on a hamster wheel somewhere until they are needed.”
This sentence epitomizes the word hypocrisy. For people who claim to spend all your time navel-gazing you are the most self-deluded humans.
And the psychos who replied…seriously, paranoia.
And for the record, I call myself an extrovert but am just over the mid-line, which when balanced for population puts me dead center of the population. But introverts scare me far more than extroverts, and are far more deluded human beings. The problem is you spend so little time with other humans that you never get enough perspective to overcome your persecution complexes.
LM,you called introverts sociopaths. it’s strange how you find time to criticize introverts, when there are worse people on the internet.
Please visit this link to see what I mean.
http://www.sociopathworld.com/
Greetings, LM
You seem to have misunderstood my views in several respects.
Firstly, you seem to suppose I believe there is a great conspiracy against introverts.
Not so.
I believe extrovert social interaction is competitive by nature, but it’s not something that is consciously thought out.
If you put a group of strangers in a room together, hierarchy and social roles start to emerge within minutes.
This is the sort of competition I refer to. No one is planning it or thinking it out.
Some walkers fall behind the other walkers. Are they paranoid? Well, no. They’re clearly behind the other walkers and at a disadvantage. Survival is on the line. No one is to blame, but what does it matter? There are two options: struggle to keep existing or simply roll over and die.
I’ve already said that most societies are collectivist societies. I’ve never set forth the idea that there’s a society for introverts. There isn’t. That great absence is what this site is all about.
I believe that every existing society has its oppressive conventions. My position is that there is a gap between societies that can serve as an ideal dwelling place for introverts.
As for extroverts. I am living in a foreign country right now. Sure enough, the extroverted expats only go to a few foreign bars and restaurants in the entire country.
Imagine that from early childhood, your most natural proclivities have gone against the grain!
That you simply dismiss us as ‘psychos’ demonstrates you have little desire to understand where we’ve come from.
Some of my recommendations for dealing with extroverts might seem ruthless or even sociopathic to you.
I don’t find the prospect of using these tactics pleasant and think of them as a last desperate resort.
One cannot simply sit around and do nothing.
I agree that extreme introverts lack certain perspective and skills as a result of social disconnection. This is why we must turn to alternative tactics even if they are unpleasant. Entering complex social interactions without enough skill and experience is to be at a severe disadvantage.
I had to look up ‘navel-gazing’:
Excessive introspection, self-absorption, or concentration on a single issue.
When have I ‘claimed’ that introverts are ‘navel gazers’?
Your word choice is heavily loaded in this instance. You seem to be expressing your views rather than summarizing mine. You accuse me of being narrow minded yet you attempt to reduce me to a mere straw man.
As for persecution complexes: we’re right back to where we started.
We’re paranoid. We think everyone’s out to get us. We’re all psycho.
In some of my posts I’ve anticipated accusations of sickness, insanity, and sociopathy.
I will write again: you have misunderstood this blog.
I do not believe there is a conspiracy against introverts. There is a situation that has arisen spontaneously from mass social existence. There may be no arch-persecutor actively hunting down introverts, but the situation must be confronted and dealt with all the same.
You tell us we are self-centered and you are right in the literal meaning of the word, but wrong concerning the strong negative connotations of selfishness.
When faced with a life as a misfit, it comes quite naturally to look inward.
We live(d) an existence where no one seemed to particularly desire or value our input.
Can one be selfish if no one desires what one has to offer?
I used to be a rather extreme introvert because i was a wallflower who knew a lot about a ton of subjects that no one was really interested in talking about. Asperger’s syndrome, narrow focus, always loved to talk about the subject in great depth….
and then I learned other people weren’t so bad-I don’t know. It seems like out culture over rewards the extraverts. I Definately Do agree. It’s just that I feel like intraverts hide their feelings bcause they’ve been conditioned to by unrespectful Extraverts… I mean what I value is deeper communication… so if I aws going somewhere with an introverted friend I’d want them to wear their heart on their sleeve if they could quietly. Maybe that’s evil of me, but i’ve always worn mine on my sleeve and dealt with my fair share of hardships for it-I seriously don’t care what people think about me anymore-I am what I am.
Unclegluon -
I’m afraid I just got back here yesterday, but thank you for your detailed response of October. I agree that at one level your arguments are objective as you describe and self preservation calls for special measures.
However, when you use lines like “The extrovert on the other hand grabs for ever more power” you show yourself slipping into the kind of paranoia and distortion which I was addressing. You may want to be, and see yourself, as the voice of reason and balance but the bias slips in, as I mentioned yesterday on one or two of your other posts. The danger of a group of introverts breeding this kind of delusion and animosity is, I think, quite real.
“You tell us we are self-centered and you are right in the literal meaning of the word, but wrong concerning the strong negative connotations of selfishness.”
To me this is like questioning the “negative connotations” of assault and murder. In most of society selfishness is, in and of itself, a negative – like insults or greed. All of these negative come from somewhere – a personal history or brain state. But a neurological explanation for psychopathic behavior or pathological lying (for instance) does not make their realities any less negative.
I’ve mentioned numerous times that it is my goal to be biased on this blog. I am not trying to be ‘objective.’ Nor can anyone truly be objective or unbiased. Your response suggests that you misunderstand my stance and my objectives.
The more extroverted a person, the more assertive and aggressive they tend to be. I don’t mean ‘aggressive’ in the sense that they’re out to beat other people up. More that they go out of their way to put themselves at the center of attention and become the dominant social force in the room. They are competitive people who will struggle to keep their coveted spot at center stage. They are not thinking things out as much as they act without thinking. They’re rarely connivers or schemers. But because they are not highly reflective or introspective persons they tend to grab for ever more power without putting a lot of thought into what they are doing and how it affects the social unit as a whole.
You think we are dangerous, delusional, and full of animosity? Why? There’s millions of people blogging about their personal causes/misgivings/grievances/whatever on the web. I really don’t understand what gives me the special distinction of being ‘dangerous.’
As for selfishness:
Children are selfish and self centered. As are animals. Most all adults are focused on themselves more than any other person because there’s this matter of survival one must attend to: Yet we generally don’t see any of these as examples of everything ‘negative’ or maladjusted.
A Buddhist monk meditating in a mountain monastery is supremely self-centered in his life of contemplation. As is anyone of an introverted or contemplative nature.
So yes, we are selfish and self-centered in a literal sense of the word. Spiritually, we literally center upon ourselves. You misunderstand me if you interpret my words as an endorsement or glorification of psychopathic behavior.
Getting down to the root of what I’m worried about…
Many of the comments you make may, for you, be mild hyperbole or occasional slips into emotional bias. But you really don’t know who’s out there reading your blog, and constructing their own realities and personal theories with parts of what you write as building blocks.
Introverts are by nature more selective about what information they bring in. They talk to fewer people and read more selective information and opinions. While this sometimes allows for a great expertise in an area, it also can lead to a relatively narrow world view which goes unchecked by contrary opinions.
I see online a growing “introvert community”. Some of this is good and healthy, but other parts strongly resemble the Pro-Ana movement which promotes anorexia as healthy and everyone else as inferior beings.
Strong introversion in most forms is a disability, and to pretend otherwise is, I believe, a bit dangerous. Disabilities can have great advantages – the blind are on average much bet musicians than the sighted. But you don’t see thousands of discussion boards promoting the superiority of blindness and the idea that it’s just another trait (I’m not saying your blog does this, but many do).
And the difference in approaches is at least as much the “fault” of extroverts as introverts. Or the fault of a society that believes in primitive ideas of free will – the idea that people can change if they just put their minds too it. This leaves extroverts to blame introverts for their behavior and introverts to turn even more inward in reaction.
But I don’t think that means that you have to promote the introverts-are-superior bias to survive, or that it is what is best for any component of society. The short term risk of creating fodder for an unstable introvert (not linking those two words…but its introverts we care about here) is real, as is the possibility of exaggerating introverted traits of community members and widening the divide between introverts and extroverts.
On the other hand I guarantee if you tone down your rhetoric you’ll see your readership drop…because this kind of rhetoric is what people like. I’ve written a couple of blogs and I know how the numbers run. I think it’s a moral and practical question though of just what it is you want to achieve.
Being unbiased is not among my objectives on this site. Bias cannot be avoided. To attempt to avoid it can only be a pretense.
It is my intention to point out on this site that there is more than one viable reality to embrace. One need not allow any social group or organization a monopoly on reality.
Introverts are far more selective about their information. We are generally quick to spot demagoguery and empty rhetoric. We focus on relevant information and sources of insight that bring some new and fascinating perspective to the matter at hand.
From childhood, we’ve been told we’re wrong to be who we are. We’ve been trained all our lives to know that something is not necessarily true just because we believe it to be ‘right’ on the emotional level. Among the information we select are typically sources from the opposing viewpoint. We take care in investigating our position before openly adopting it. By our very nature we don’t rush in; we are not impulsive. We tend to test ideas first.
You will find that many of my posts on this site address extrovert views concerning why we are wrong, inferior, or psychopathic.
I’m sure there’s webrings for any number of unusual organizations. I don’t know why you’re trying to make a link between my site and a site for anorexics.
Introversion is without doubt a serious impediment when it comes to social situations. It makes tasks that are routine to others rather stressful and difficult. I suppose you could call it a disability like blindness if the drawbacks vastly outweighed the gifts. I believe introversion, overall, to be a gift rather than a disability for reasons I have enumerated. It is worth it alone for the perspective it allows and the ability to focus, but naturally every strength has its drawbacks.
I wouldn’t want to be any other way even if I could get advantages by changing because I am pleased by the advantages I already enjoy. Why is it ‘dangerous’ to think in this way?
In general, introversion, even in more extreme forms, is understood to be a personality profile within the spectrum of ‘normal’(non-insane) human behavior.
We could point at uber extremes.
You at a bad case of autism.
Me at a sociopathic ultra-narcissistic master manipulator.
But that doesn’t really get us anywhere.
I’ve never yet seen one blog, let alone a community of blogs, that promotes introversion as the master personality trait.(That’s because it isn’t) So far as I know, I’m about as extreme as it gets.
I would say that I am less about blaming than I am about explaining.
Less about ‘fault’ than I am about ’cause’
I’m interested in delving into why things work the way they do and how change might be implemented.
There is of course deep bias and emotional charge in everything I do, but that is a very different thing from actively seeking to blame, fault, and defame others. I readily acknowledge that almost no one goes out to ‘get’ other people and make their life miserable. I see the present state of affairs as the product of a larger system and of human nature.
Who professes this ‘introverts are superior bias?’ I am mostly concerned with an ‘introversion is acceptable, an asset, and a strength’ bias. Because one assesses a certain trait as a strength does not mean one promotes it as the ultimate, superior way.
What on earth makes you believe that my online writings are going to inspire a cadre of ‘unstable’ persons? Millions of people every day put their personal writings and beliefs on the internet. I honestly cannot imagine what makes me so special.
Any divide between introverts and extroverts exists mainly because of a lack of affinity and common interests, not some kind of almost ethnic divide as you describe.
You give this operation way too much credit. I see steady traffic on this blog but I’m not exactly an earthshaking cyber pontiff. I’m writing about my perspective about a particular issue on this blog. When I was growing up, I would have loved to find writings like the ones I’ve posted. I was surrounded by disapproval in my life and I wish I’d had another voice to listen to however small. I want to help people out there who are running into the same kinds of problems I’ve run into. I’m not exactly getting money and power out of this.
Consider it this way:
If I was looking for a mass following or entourage of ‘unstable’ devotees would I be writing for a niche audience known for caution and restraint to the point of excess?
“Strong introversion in most forms is a disability, and to pretend otherwise is, I believe, a bit dangerous.”
Why? Because you say so?
Talk about “dangerous” demagoguery!
I don’t think you are looking for a mass of followers, and I agree with you that you are unlikely to have one. If you can help some people that’s great, but I worry that you underestimate the danger the seed you may plant in even one person can cause.
People generally have a lot more power than they realize over the creation of others reality. Both extroverts and introverts can miss seeing this power for different reasons. Extroverts might not see the effect in modern societies, as they move through social environments and friends.
But introverts have often had so little experience being the “talker” that they don’t realize people are really out there listening. And in the digital world you may not see the impact you’ve had.
I only suggest caution. Not all introverts continuously exhibit restraint. And many people, especially those who are young and troubled, will pull ideas from almost anywhere that make them feel better and empowered – not always with the perspective on how those remarks were intended.
Almost any conceivable action comes with some degree of risk. I am not about to change or tone down my message because of any such risks.
One could always justify doing nothing at all by pointing to every little thing that could possibly go wrong. At some point one has to decide what they believe in and act.
One has to make hot coffee even if someone might spill it all over their lap and sue. One can’t stay home from work because they’re afraid ending up in a car wreck.
Unless I had some exceptional reason to believe that my blog was particularly likely to cause some sort of strange reaction in its readers, I don’t see why I need to take any special measures or slap on any warning labels.
I get input from some of my readers and I have yet to get a single strange, threatening, or disturbing message from anyone.
I get the impression I’ve had some impact on a few people. For this I am thankful. It is among my objectives to exert an influence and change people’s world views for the better. I especially want to reach out to those who are young and troubled so they may have some assurance that they are not alone during a critical formative time of life.
You envision these young people getting megalomaniacal ideas in their heads and becoming dangerous.
I envision these young people discovering that there’s nothing wrong with them and turning away from possible destructive courses of action.
Perhaps not everyone who reads this site gets my full meaning. This is not grounds, however, to dumb down or tone down my blog.
If only one person read my blog, understood my intent, and derived some benefit, I would count my efforts here to be fulfilled.
You think in terms of the one odd person who could misunderstand.
I think in terms of the one person who might benefit from my perspective.
If someone were already looking for justification for dangerous beliefs, wouldn’t they find their muse somewhere sooner or later?
For this reason, we can’t really blame the computer game ‘Doom’ for causing the Columbine shootings. Surely we can’t hold ourselves hostage to people who are bound to find some reason to something stupid anyway.
Should we not post up ideas and perspectives out of some abject, unfounded fear that someone somewhere could misunderstand it? If so, one has created a system wherein only the most unscrupulous and ambitious would dare present ideas.